Hello,
I really appreciate all the great info on your site. Thanks!
I've had a Traynor sitting in the attic for many years. It's in like-new condition outside, but I haven't ever plugged it in since I got it at a sidewalk sale years ago. Your site has inspired me to check it out!
Ironically, the one schematic I need does not appear to be on your site
The amp I have is a YBA1A, Mark II. I don't know if it's a 'bassmaster' version of the mkII or not. It doesn't say 'bassmaster' on it, but from the pics on your 'catalog' pages, I couldn't see any difference between bm's and non-bm's anyway.
Does anyone have any practical experiences or comments about tube life in Traynor amplifiers?
I wrote about this a week ago, but my comments were based more on what I have read rather than first hand experience. In the good old days I was too impoverished to ever change tubes (relatively speaking, tubes were much more expensive back in the late 60's than they are now). Nowadays I have far too many amplifiers and not enough time to use them - the tubes will last forever at a few hours use a year!Here they come...
Brian
My oldest Bass Master (late 60's - I have no idea - all black face, pullout chassis, cloth front with holes and silver lettering and trapazoidal surrond on a black background, serial number 5841) has the original power tubes. When I brought it in for service the tech said the tubes had alot of life left in them. My '73 Custom Special has all the original tubes, but the power tubes will die within the next year. The other two Bass Masters probably have original tubes, but I haven't looked and haven't had them worked on. It seems to me that the old Phillips tubes in a conservative Bass Master circuit was a recipe for ling tube life.
KO>
All three of my Traynors were pawnshop aquisitions, so it's hard to tell if they'd been played regularly, but 2 of the three still had their stock tubes and sounded great (Bass Master and Studio Mate). It might help that the stock tubes are Philips-labelled Mullards. My Mark 3 had a tube configuration like the U.N.: one pair of EL34's are Japanese, the other American, the 12ax7a's are from Yugoslavia, Canada and Britain. This amp looked like it had been gigged hard. I cleaned it up and put a pair of Celestion G12T-75's in it. I was thinking of retubing, but it sounds great the way it is, so I guess I'll leave well enough alone for now.
srd
I've never played through an early Hiwatt (the classic 'Who's Next' , Live at Leeds amp sound) but they seem similar to Traynors. Anyone out there had the chance to compare?
(... hmm, my first amp was a Hiwatt Custom 100, I remember it pretty well - blew cones just idling ... the 6BQ5 Guitar Mates have a bit of raw glassiness to them but similar to Hiwatt ? ... hmm ...)>I just picked up a Mark3 combo today for $ 250 Cdn. >It is in pretty good shape with just enough wear to give it character. Somebody had performed some interesting tube substitutions , a 12AX7 for the 6BQ5 and a 6L6GC for one of the EL34.
Whoa! Did it work? How'd it sound?
I just finished restoring a Mark3. Mostly just cosmetic surgery and a pair of Celestion G12T-75's. It sounds great.
Good luck with yours Dave.
Rob
Hi JC,
I'm hoping that you will be able to help me out. I've been shopping all over the web for an old bassmaster head, but having a hard time getting the sort of info I need.
I'm looking for one of these heads for guitar, and have come across some post-'72 YBA-1's, and also several YBA-1A's. I've heard some concerns voiced about both these models due to the higher plate volatges they run (apparently in the +600v range for the YBA-1A).
How much of a concern do you think this is as far as sound is concerned? I love a punchy and aggressive amp with a fair amount of clean headroom, but my tech voices the concern that amps running plate voltages that high might be extremely bright, ice-picky in fact, like my Hiwatt DR504 was. What do you think? I can't find anyone else who can answer this question, and I'd sure value your opinion !!
many thanks in advance - Tom Becker
Hey JC,
Thanks very much for all of the info. I'm scrounging around and finding a number of these amps, but having a tough time finding the right one. I've found some later YBA-1's and a YBA-1A, but I'm going to hang in there and look for an early model. Sure would appreciate a shout if you run into one! If i find it, i may very well get a 4 x 10 to go with it, just like your friend. Sounds like it would make a killer rig to haul around! Thanks very much for taking the time to reply.
have a good one - Tom B.
Hi Tom,
I'm no expert on Traynors but the best tone I've witnessed of all the models comes from the first edition Bassmaster (6BQ5's Guitar Mates are very nice and glassy sounding too) ... I'm not sure about voltages but the tranny is very respectable on the first YBA1, in the same league as good Fenders and Marshalls ... I think the post-early Traynors, like '69s and '72s have inferior sounding output trannys ... the high voltage thing is not an automatic given though there is some truth to tubes running at 600v and sounding very glassy, the early Garnets at running EL34's at 530v are not like that at all ... anyway, the first YBA1 doesn't suffer from this ... there are other issues in the circuit that needs addressing though and they are quite simple to deal with ... mainly Traynor had to do a few things to his circuits in order for Fender not to sue besides trying to develope a Traynor sound that wasn't too distant from the revered '59 Bassman/JTM45 topology; undoing those changes gives you ballpark '59 Bassman tone and dynamics with Celestions ... I don't own one but I've played a few, certainly worth playing- even stock ... a friend of mine plays his Ricky through a '65 YBA1 and a 4x10 Marshall cab and gets a natural tone I think most people would enjoy listening to ... keep trying, they are around; if I see one I'll let you know ... you shouldn't pay more than $350CDN or so for one ... good luck :)~
jc
Hi Folks, Consider me a new Taynor e-mail guy. I have a '77 YBA1 with a matching YT-15 cabinet (2X15"). This must have been one of the last real Traynor amps made... how about that! .. one of the last! It's probably not worth a tird as a collector's item but this amp really screams. It's a keeper! Regards, Ron.>>
There is a new version of the Tube Amp FAQ available. The main change is a greatly expanded section on output transformers and speaker loads - a subject much discussed on the Traynor list recently. Keen has the older version posted as well, and most links go to the old rather than the new version. This is the correct location:
http://www.eden.com/~keen/tubeampfaq/taffram.htm
A short excerpt:
>Q: Why do I have to match speakers to the output impedance of the amp?
>A: You'll get the most power out of the amp if the load is matched.
>Q:Will it hurt my amp/output transformer/tubes to use a mismatched speaker load?
>Simple A: Within reason, no.
>Say for example you have two eight ohm speakers, and you want to hook them up to an amp with 4, 8, and 16 ohm taps. How do you hook them up?
>For most power out, put them in series and tie them to the 16 ohm tap, or parallel them and tie the pair to the 4 ohm load.
>For tone? Try it several different ways and see which you like best. "Tone" is not a single valued quantity, either, and in fact depends hugely on the person listening. That variation in impedance versus frequency and the variation in output power versus impedance and the variation in impedance with loading conspire to make the audio response curves a broad hump with ragged, humped ends, and those humps and dips are what makes for the "tone" you hear and interpret. Will you hurt the transformer if you parallel them to four ohms and hook them to the 8 ohm tap? Almost certainly not. If you parallel them and hook them to the 16 ohm tap? Extremely unlikely. In fact, you probably won't hurt the transformer if you short the outputs. If you series them and hook them to the 8 ohm or 4 ohm tap? Unlikely - however... the thing you CAN do to hurt a tube output transformer is to put too high an ohmage load on it. If you open the outputs, the energy that gets stored in the magnetic core has nowhere to go if there is a sudden discontinuity in the drive, and acts like a discharging inductor. This can generate voltage spikes that can punch through the insulation inside the transformer and short the windings. I would not go above double the rated load on any tap. And NEVER open circuit the output of a tube amp - it can fry the transformer in a couple of ways.
>Extended A: It's almost never low impedance that kills an OT, it's too high an impedance.
>The power tubes simply refuse to put out all that much more current with a lower-impedance load, so death by overheating with a too-low load is all but impossible - not totally out of the question but extremely unlikely. The power tubes simply get into a loading range where their output power goes down from the mismatched load. At 2:1 lower-than-matched load is not unreasonable at all.
>If you do too high a load, the power tubes still limit what they put out, but a second order effect becomes important.
>There is magnetic leakage from primary to secondary and between both half-primaries to each other. When the current in the primary is driven to be discontinuous, you get inductive kickback from the leakage inductances in the form of a voltage spike.
>This voltage spike can punch through insulation or flash over sockets, and the spike is sitting on top of B+, so it's got a head start for a flashover to ground. If the punchthrough was one time, it wouldn't be a problem, but the burning residues inside the transformer make punchthrough easier at the same point on the next cycle, and eventually erode the insulation to make a conductive path between layers. The sound goes south, and with an intermittent short you can get a permanent short, or the wire can burn though to give you an open there, and now you have a dead transformer.
>So how much loading is too high? For a well designed (equals interleaved, tightly coupled, low leakage inductances, like a fine, high quality hifi) OT, you can easily withstand a 2:1 mismatch high.
>For a poorly designed (high leakage, poor coupling, not well insulated or potted) transformer, 2:1 may well be marginal. Worse, if you have an intermittent contact in the path to the speaker, you will introduce transients that are sharper and hence cause higher voltages. In that light, the speaker impedance selector switch could kill OT's if two ways - if it's a break befor make, the transients cause punch through; if it's a make before break, the OT is intermittently shorted and the higher currents cause burns on the switch that eventually make it into a break before make.
>Turning the speaker impedance selector with an amp running is something I would not chance, not once.
Thanks for the Traynor site!Ê I have been using a model YBA-2B since the early 70's and its STILL cranking out the tunes! Ê Regards, Ê
Kevin Whitaker
No mods at all - except for the new power cord I had to replace after a cymbal fell on it and cut it in half!
Originally got it as a bass practice amp. Then started playing my SG thru it with a fuzz/wah pedal and it rocks! Have used it at various gigs lately a people want to know what the heck it is - they've not seen a Traynor before. Ahhh, the good old days!
What's your set-up?
KW --------------------------------------------- Kevin W. Whitaker
Going by the only pawn shop in town that doesn't have pure junk, I stopped in on a whim. They've got a Traynor Bassmate in pretty good condition. It's got a pair or 6V6s (RCA no less) and a speaker in a sealed back cab. Would probably be a great project amp but I've got to stop buying every neat thing I see or my wife will kill me (or worse.)
They had it tagged at $190 (US). Does that sound like a reasonable price? This pawnshop sell Vintage Guitar mag so their prices are usually pretty typical of guitar dealer prices, unlike a lot of clueless shops that have things priced at 200% of market value.
Anyone know what size and kind of speaker is inside?
Lee
Lee, I am in touch with a guy in Massachusetts who has a YBA-2B Bass Mate for which he is asking US$165 shipping. I just bought a 1970 YGM-2 Guitar Mate from up North for $220 shipped. This is a 1 x 12 with a pair of EL84's, and to tell you the truth, I really don't care for this amp. If you or anyone else is interested, I'd be glad to ship it to you for half that. Have a good one - Tom
I would just like to point out now, that this Bassmate, which usually runs EL34, is able to be set up with 6V6, this is commonly tried by marshall 1987 owners where the amps plate voltage is around 420v or less. The other responder to this message refers to the YBA2, which is a completely different arrangement altogether(18watts). Forget projects! These things are really great stock! <
Its interesting that you mention the "cold" sound of Traynor guitar amps. I just got a Mark 3 and the spec on the schematic recommends a bias of 30 ma per EL34 (120 ma in total). At 437 volts on the plate this is on the cold side(no pun intended). At 40 ma per tube the sound opens up considerably. I wonder if Traynor biased the tubes cold to make the tubes last longer . A lot of these amps ended up in the rental inventory at Long & MacQuade( the music store side of the business) and they may have hoped to reduce maintenance costs on the amps.
Regards, Dave Tomlinson
>>I just saw an interesting YBA-1. It has a non-fliptop cabinet, EL34 power tubes, a fuse (instead of a circuit breaker) and choke in the power supply, and a preamp configuration like an early Bassman (5F6 chassis). The serial number is 4942. It doesn't have a plate on the front but their are two screw holes in the front board which could line up to the smaller Traynor nameplate. The holes are also offset so whatever was screwed in would be to the lower left of the panel. The silkscreening is also more "square" and it has "chicken head" knobs.
>>By the above description, can you determine if this is one of the older models? I seem to remember someone stating that there were a couple of "transition models" moving from 6L6 to 7027A and finally to EL34 power tubes. Anything you can tell me would be of assistance.
>>Thanks,
>>Rudy
>The Serial number suggests to me that it's from the late 60's, maybe Eric Knudsen or someone else on the list can tell you more. I've never seen a Traynor with Chicken Head knobs, I'd guess that they're aftermarket. My oldest Bass Master is serial number 5841. I have no idea how old it is, but it doesn't have a rectifier tube and I'm pretty sure that I've seen older.
>Yesterday I bought a Traynor Reverb Master (YRM-1) that had a 1975 serial number. It's for my brother. I paid $150 for it. It seemed quiet in both the good sense and the bad sense. That's my first forway into the Traynor guitar amp arena. It's cool that it has both reverb and tremolo. That takes care of all my Traynor needs, but doesn't mean I won't be buying more. I have a Bassmaster for upstairs (practice), downstairs (recording gear), and my brother who is playing harmonica. The guitarist brother gets the Reverb Master and I have the Custom Special for playing out.
>If anyone can tell me more about the Reverb Master, Traynor guitar amps or this vintage of Traynors (my previous youngests were 1973) I'd appreciate it. Now I've _GOT_ to get Kevin O'Connors _The Ultimate Tone_ for my brother to be able to work on it. Everything I've read about Traynor guitar amps mentions that they are "cold". Kudos to Rudy Rudinsky for sending me the "triode mode mod" photocopies - they may be just the thing for warming up the YRM-1.
>KO
When I first got my YSR-1, "sterile" was the word I used to describe the tone. Not nearly as pleasing as the classic Fender clean sound. It has grown on my though and through a pair of Celestion 12s, I think it sounds quite good, especially when cranked. Mine is biased at about 35 ma.
Lee
ANYHOW I know that each amp needs to be "re-biased" when replacing tubes. What does this entail? What does it mean? What equipment do I need to do this myself? (I really want to do this myself, YES!!!) If I want them to sound/run "warm" as opposed to "cold"...what does that mean as far as sound, and wear and tear on the tubes.? I'm going for the best warmest "tone", and I don't necessarily care if this means running the tubes out sooner. If it sounds good, that's what I'm going for.
I just don't want to pay to get this done because I want to learn how to do it on my own. All replies appreciated.
The first thing you should know is that there are potentially lethal voltages present in tube amps even when they are unplugged.
I would start by having a look at the FAQ links on the Ampage site at www.firebottle.com/ampage/ Read the tube amp faq at the RG Keen site. Duncan amps has some good information at www.duncanamps.simplenet.com/ including an excel spreadsheet that will calculate anode dissipation for given plate voltages and currents. Check out the London Power site at www.londonpower.com Read alt.guitar.amp, there's alot of " I hate (insert amp manufacturer name here)" posts but there is some good information there amongst the BS.
Hope this helps, Dave Tomlinson
-----Original Message-----
From: Mary.Genova@eaic.com
>I recently bought a 1971 YBA-1. I think the tubes may need replacing soon (faint high pitched squeals, some crackling, I think)
>ANYHOW >I know that each amp needs to be "re-biased" when replacing tubes. What does this entail? What does it mean? What equipment do I need to do this myself? (I really want to do this myself, YES!!!) >If I want them to sound/run "warm" as opposed to "cold"...what does that mean as far as sound, and wear and tear on the tubes.? I'm going for the best warmest "tone", and I don't necessarily care if this means running the tubes out sooner. If it sounds good, that's what I'm going for.
>I just don't want to pay to get this done because I want to learn how to do it on my own. >All replies appreciated. Hey JC, Did you get my mail the pix?
Brian
>> ... The silkscreening is also more "square" and it has "chicken head" knobs.
There is a picture of my early Bassmaster YBA-1- just as you describe, including the classic chicken-head knobs, wrap-around case, fuse, choke, etc.: http://www.informatik.uni-bremen.de/~dace/vb/bma.jpg Unlike the parallelogram logo on later models it has a nifty Fender-like script logo: http://www.informatik.uni-bremen.de/~dace/vb/Script.jpg
The very early models originally had 7027s, but most (including mine) were long ago converted to 6CA7/EL34s - Yorkville supplied instructions for conversion. 7027s were expensive and rare even in the early 70s. All the later case style models came with EL34s. Mine is a three digit serial number (253) from the mid sixties and has a 5AR4 tube rectifier. Your model would date from 1970, according to the info at: http://www.informatik.uni-bremen.de/~dace/vb/dates.html#fourdigit
I am not sure which tubes your amp came with originally - it was built close to the date of the switch of tube types and case styles.
It might be worth wiring the output tubes like Marshall rather than the unusual Traynor EL34 circuit - which is clean and reliable, but not to everyones taste. Perhaps JC will have a comment on this.
Eric