Thanks for being here!
Hello... I'm looking for 2 Traynor name plates from 1971,' '72, ' 73 . They are the one's that are about 6 or 7 inches long and about 2 inches high, black background, silver lettering. Can you help me ? Thanks Glen
There was a guy with a classified ad at Harmony Central with 3 or 4 Traynor nameplates for sale. This was maybe a month ago...His ad may still be there.
Mike Levy
I'm restoring a beat up '73 Mark 3 and am wondering what to use for speakers. The schematic recommends a minimum impedance of 4 ohms. What was stock on this amp? A pair of 8 ohm 12s or a pair of 16 ohm 12s? What does this amp want to see? If I go with two 8 ohm speakers and then run an 8 ohm extension cabinet, am I asking for trouble?
I have acess to a pair of Celestion G12T-75's in either 8 or 16 ohms for 50 bucks each. Good choice for this amp? Other recommendations?
Thanks.
srd
the schematic shows an 8-Ohm output and there's an external speaker jack to plug in a cab ... notice they never put a warning next to this jack on guitar amps ? The reason is because you can always go lower impedance-wise without damaging the output coil - in fact you can safely short the output coil even when the amp is operated ...in case you wanna know, from ohm's shitty little law a short across output coil means Vout=0 means Pout=0, doesn't mean current in the loop is zero though ... operating open loop (no load) is an entirely different thing altogether, the back emf will cause the flux to cancel out in the core and leave huge eddy currents causing the iron to heat up ... this is why well designed tube amps have a shorting jack at the main speaker connection if the speaker connection isn't hardwired ... considering manufacturers knew that guitar equipment was going to be operated around vast amounts of liquor such things as impedance mismatched get blurry after a while and I guess I can't remember what I wanted to say ... oh well ... :)~
...*.**... since the MkIII head gives out somewhere between 110~120wrms at lower distortion levels and probably 140~160wrms at full blast I'd say the two 8ohm-75's would probably be a very good choice for this amp, and also from judging how they usually sound in a JCM800 combo ... many times I've operated the MkIII with two outside tubes pulled out, same speaker load, with no problems and tone still ok ... when halving the power on the amp you may want to use only one speaker providing a 8ohm load if you wanted to keep the damping factor of the output stage similar - your call ... I've used a pair of Mesa-Boogie Vintage Black-Shadows in my FrankenMkIII for a while but was never excited about them ... in my experience it seems there's something hard about matching a quad of EL34's to a pair of twelves ...
Ken Fischer once recommended I try hunting down 70's Celestion Blackbacks for Twins, Pros and Deluxes, they might work well with a MkIII running half power ... if there's anybody out there that can tell me where I can find a good pair I'd be greatful.
Thanks for the advice jc. I'm not a tech, just a Traynor amp lover (I have three.... so far). So I appreciate it when you guys answer what must be irritatingly obvious questions...
Also thanks for the great Web site.
srd
I just realized the output ohmage on a stock YGL3 is 4 ohms (not 8) , i.e. two 8 ohms in parallel is recommended ...
>... that's just off the top of my head, I'm sure more suggestions will [...]I have a YBA-1A MKII amp the one with the fan. Couldn't open the schematic (don't know if it's something on my end or what). I have the schematic that is contained inside. Is there any upgrades or modifications since originally designed? I think it is all original but does not exactly match the drawing. ptarczon@aol.comWell, I'm sort of new to all this...I have a mac(iMac) so it has a lot of the latest stuff. I think compressed is O.K. Can we try somthin' and see? Thanks again PTJC,
you're right, I don't have much links to schematics etc., but dating is possible following the 'Dates' link via serial numbers, and following the 'Models' link via descriptions. In the 'Models' section there are also price information, some at least. Recommended shops are in the 'Links' section.
It would be nice if you linked to my page, thanks.
--Daniel
I just picked up a modded YBA-1 and had a few questions about it. KraigO has also been a big help with this as well as getting me interested in Traynor.
1) After comparing the components to a the YBA-1 and Marshall schematics, I believe that it has been essentially modded into a Marshall 50W. The tone is still good, but some of the components for the power aren't as heavy duty as the originals. The input resistors appear to be correct as do some of the caps in the preamp section. In particular the supply resistors going to the EL-34's are 1.2K, 5W instead of 470, 10W. Should I change some of this stuff out? I do intend to recap it as there is a bit of hum and hiss.
2) If anybody has a picture of the insides of a relativily clean YBA-1 and could email it to me I'd appreciate it. I've already asked KraigO, but extra reference material never hurts :^).
3) Is the pot between V5 and the can the hum balance for the heater circuit?
4) Does anybody have a good source for the supply caps? My amp has one, 2-section Malory 40 uF and two, Malory caps in the can. I haven't been able to check the value of the cans because they are soldered to the chassis.
Thanks, Darrin LokenHi!
Hey THANX for putting up the Tratnor catalogues ... quite neat!
Might you know where I could pick up a Traynor grille logo piece for my Mk3 YGL3 ... it's missing on my amp:-(
Thanx again ...
BR
I to have a chopped YBA-1 Traynor Amp.Ê My needs are the same as Darrin Loken "Lowrider".Ê Please c.c. any information sent his way me as well.Ê Ê
Thank You Randall Dibble
First of all, thanks for all of the responses. I wasn't expecting that. Just some additional information, Kraig helped me decipher the sn and my YBA1 was made in Nov '72. As I mentioned in my earlier post, it does have the EL-34 ckt that so many guitarists seem to be lusting after :^).
I've been comparing the mid '60's YBA1 schematic with the early '70's schematic and there are some subtile differences. They mainly show up in the preamp and the rectifer circuits...I don't really count the final section because of the different tubes that were used in different years (7027A vs. EL34). Traynor does seem to like using the 470 ohm resistor for the power tubes grid(?) though.
Thanks again, Darrin
In response to your "mods" poll,
The only mods Ive done to my Traynors is to convert a YBA-1A and a YBA-3 to 6550 power tubes. I'm a bass player, and I was looking for more of an "SVT tone", round, clean and full bodied, from the amps. This mod, described to me by Kevin O'Connor of London Power, Consists of increasing the negative bias voltage to a level acceptable for 6550 operation, and adding 1Kohm/5w screen grid resistors , to pin 4 of power tube sockets.
The mod performed just as expected, resulting in two VERY loud, clean and fat sounding amps, especially the YBA-1A.
As far as speakers, I've used the amps primarily with 4x10s and 2x15s on gigs. The best sounding rig was the YBA-3 with the Traynor 8x10 "big bottom" cab, but im too old to lug this around. The ultimate earth shaker was the YBA-3 with a 4x15(!) Kustom bass cabinet...serious rumble.
Mike Levy Senior Cost Analyst
J.C.my name is scott stoner i am a fresh bass player and i know a little about build electronics. i have preveously worked on building a fuzz face and sucessfully finished it and i was wondering if you could tell me how man watts your 72yba1bassmaster has and you 69yba1a bassmastermk II and last but not leas your 66 yba1bassmaster thank you verry much
Sincerely Scott Stoner.
I was thinking about building a speaker cab for my Custom Special head. It will be for guitar, so would a 4x12 configuration be the best choice?
Which leads me to the speaker situation; what speakers would be the best choice for my amp, since they'll be the priciest component in the equation. Also, does anyone know of any good cabinet building resources? Thanks in advance....
Kirk
I too have tried to find info in musical speaker cab building on the net but there is not much out there.. Most replies go along the lines of : Buy this book at radio shack..
This link has a ton of related speaker links (mostly home audio but some theory that is the same)
http://www.fagersta.com/electronics/audiospeakers.html
This is a page pointing to some guys sound company but he has a bunch of cab plans on it:
http://www.dancetech.com/pa/pa.cfm
His plans seem to be something he has just whipped up without regard to speaker type etc.
I am beginning to think that in guitar speakers anyways, the box measurements aren't really based on anything specific, just make a box big enough to hold your speakers and put your amp on top of. If you can measure an existing cab just copy that.. Since you really arn't worried about bass response in a guitar cab, I don't think you have to get to scientific..
Comments anyone? Please tell me if I'm way off base..
Dave
>Hello,
>I was thinking about building a speaker cab for my Custom Special head. It will be for guitar, so would a 4x12 configuration be the best choice?
>Which leads me to the speaker situation; what speakers would be the best choice for my amp, since they'll be the priciest component in the equation. Also, does anyone know of any good cabinet building resources? Thanks in advance....
4x12s are awfully heavy. A 2x12 is plenty for most venues. I built a Fender-sized 2x12 out of 3/4" ply (sides and back) and 1/2" particle board (baffle.) I covered in in black pebble grain vinyl that was a lot cheaper than tolex. I've got a pair of 16 ohm Celestion G12M-70s and drive it with a Traynor Custom Reverb. It sounds great (in my opinion) and it was fun to build. I've attached a picture.
Lee
I am beginning to think that in guitar speakers anyways, the box measurements aren't really based on anything specific, just make a box big enough to hold your speakers and put your amp on top of. If you can measure an existing cab just copy that..
>Since you really arn't worried about bass response in a guitar cab, I don't think you have to get to scientific..
>Comments anyone? >Please tell me if I'm way off base..
I think you are right but there are some who have gotten scientific (Buzz Feiten, Dr. Z) with very good results. I've never worried about it myself except for the 1x15 I built. I used the Thiele-Small parameters to optimize the bass response.
Lee
>I think you are right but there are some who have gotten scientific (Buzz Feiten, Dr. Z) with very good results. I've never worried about it myself except for the 1x15 I built. I used the Thiele-Small parameters to optimize the bass response.
Yes, certainly in the case of modern bass cabs you will want to use the speaker paramaters to your advantage.
Any particular reason you used particleboard as a baffle rather than plywood? Does it affect the sound of the cab?
Nice work, by the way. Cab looks really pro..
Dave
Speaking of cabs, has anyone seen around/know the cost of the 8x10" cabs around Toronto ? My friend recently got a Marshall Major, I cant help but think it will pair well with one of these cabs.
He had a Traynor 4x12 a few months ago, but the size/wattage wasnt needed then. (If you see one with the upper left driver replaced with a cheap radio shack 12" thats it, if youre wondering who cut off the Norelcos' whizzer cones, thats me) Anyone used them for guitar?
Thanks JK
I'm amazed, that looks JUST like a cab ive been working on since the summer, except that one looks a bit taller, I copied the Marshall 1936 dimensions, but decided to make it shorter. Again, not tolex, I covered it in this vinyl stuff used for auto convertible soft tops. Looks like a very fenderish grain. I didnt round the corners very much, and i havent put a grill on it yet, although I was thinking of using the fender grillcloth as opposed to the expensive Marshall checkered cloth.
I plan to load it with Weber Blue dogs. I myself have given up on 4x12's, I dont have roadies picking up after me yet.
>4x12s are awfully heavy. A 2x12 is plenty for most venues. I built a Fender-sized 2x12 out of 3/4" ply (sides and back) and 1/2" particle board (baffle.) I covered in in black pebble grain vinyl that was a lot cheaper than tolex. I've got a pair of 16 ohm Celestion G12M-70s and drive it with a Traynor Custom Reverb. It sounds great (in my opinion) and it was fun to build. I've attached a picture.
>Lee
I should have mentioned this last week. My friend was at Songbird Music in Toronto buying a Marshall Major, while there a guy brought in a really old Traynor with the serial # "0003" or "003". He described it as being smaller than the YBA1 wraparound style cab, with the controls on the upper back edge (ala fender tweeds), there was no power switch, rather one of the knobs (likely the volume) acted as the power switching, there were only 3 or 4 knobs on it. He has no idea what the circuitry was based on. The tolex/grillcloth was not the regular tolex/silvergray stuff, but something else I cant recall. I dont know the cost, it was being all fussed over, polaroids were being taken etc.
It might still be there, so run down today. We need this thing for our uhh 'research', "Property of the Traynor mailing-list"My son got a 12 or 15" Traynor "Bass Master YBA-4". The schematic indicates it a 1978. I can't find it in the lists anywhere. Can you provide us with something on the wattage, value, etc.?
Thanks, Mark
Hello, I am new to the list, greetings, I hope I am properly subscribed... I recently aquired a traynor YSR-1 for 150 US dollars, it is a beauty... I am interested in replacing the name plate on the front of the amp (there is not one there now) and I am also interested in purchasing photocopies of the manual! Nowhere on the amp does it list the required ohmage (if that is a word) or the wattage of the amp, Even if you could let me know these parameters if you have them, either via the list or by direct e-mail (I don't know if I am subscribed to the list properly...) any help is greatly appreciated!!! thanks in advance, Donny
I recently aquired a traynor YSR-1 for 150 US dollars, it >is a beauty... I am interested in replacing the name plate on the front of the amp (there is not one there now) and I am also interested in purchasing photocopies of the manual!
Everyone is looking for Traynor nameplates, many amps are missing them. Early amps have a script (Fenderish) logo, later ones have a more industrial looking parallelogram logo. Traynor amps have very vague and unhelpfull manuals, fortunately, the amp is very strtaight forward and you wlill find that you don't need one. A manual for a similar amp (YBA-1) can be found at http://www.lynx.bc.ca/~jc/yba1Manual.html - The Bassmaster has the same output section but no reverb or tremolo.
>Nowhere on the amp does it list >the required ohmage (if that is a word) or the wattage of the amp,
It puts out about 45 to 50 watts - about the same as a nominally 50 watt Marshall of the same period. Traynor never published power numbers. It is nominally an 8 ohm output, but works well with a 4 ohm load as well.
Welcome, you're on the list. Let me know if you find any name plates because I'm looking for one for my YSR-1 also. Is yours older or newer? (I believe the older ones don't have the chrome molding but do have both a red and green light indicating status on the front.) Let me know if you find a manual too. I have copies of a couple pages of old Traynor catalogs, but nothing specific to YSR-1s.
Enjoy!
I have not measured it, but the schematic indicates the power supply puts out 438 volts, with 433 volts actually on the plates of the output tubes. Many guitar amps using 6L6's, 6CA7/EL34's etc, use almost the same voltage - as high a voltage as possible with standard 450 volt filter capacitors, given normal line voltage fluctuation. Higher voltage amps such as the Mark II or Custom Special are forced to use capacitors in series to cope
I hope I am properly subscribed... I recently aquired a traynor YSR-1 for 150 US dollars, it is a beauty... I am interested in replacing the name plate on the front of the amp (there is not one there now) and I am also interested in purchasing photocopies of the manual! Nowhere on the amp does it list the required ohmage (if that is a word) or the wattage of the amp, Even if you could let me know these parameters if you have them, either via the list or by direct e-mail (I don't know if I am subscribed to the list properly...) any help is greatly appreciated!!! thanks in advance,
I have this amp. It wants to see an 8 ohm load and is probably around 50 watts.
Lee
Hi: I've been seeing a few emails from folks looking for Traynor nameplates. I've got one from a Studio-mate cabinet I'd be willing to part with. For that matter, I've got no use for the entire cabinet since I built a custom 1-12" cabinet for the amp. If anyone is interested in either the nameplate or the cabinet (including the four 8" speakers) email me with an offer. I'll give 1st preference to those interested in the cabinet (assuming they want the nameplate with it). For those curious about shipping, I'm in the Wash. D.C. area.
Jeff Ford
Thanks jc,
If I get chance at the weekend I'll update the archives, and then start scanning through them and start pulling out pearls of wisdom, like dating information and so on. (Maybe We should have a 'traynor dater' like the fender 'axe dater')
Aaron
This is most likely the YBA-4, which is the YBA-1 50W chassis in a sealed cab with a 15. On my journey north of the border last october on a Traynor quest, I found and played a YBA-2 Bassmate that someone converted to EL-34s(poor tranny!) It was ravaged, and severely overpriced, but sounded fairly good.
Of course, you may have seen the elusive YBA-5 "Arm Stretcher", A mythical beast reputed to have a YBA-1A chassis with a Cerwin Vega 15 in the same cab, a tale related to me by an old timer named Mike at Yorkville Sound-Canada one dark and stormy night..... ;-)
Mike Levy
Some of the early model YBA-1 and ran the 7027 power tube from the factory, which was soon changed to the EL-34, which became the factory installed power tube in all later YBAs except the -2 and -2a.
With respect to the YBA-2 and 2A, I was always under the impression that they ran a pair of EL-84s for about 20-30 watts output. Again, on my trip to Ontario, I ran across 2 YBA-2A heads in a used shop in Hamilton. What was unusual was that neither head used the EL-84 tube. One had been modified for 2 6L6s(yikes!), the other appeared completely stock but had a pair of 6V6s, which are close to the EL-84s in terms of power output. Both amps were very old, they were the first Ive had ever seen with the script logo.
Has anyone else run across the -2 or -2a that used anything other than EL-84s, without being modded? Maybe the very early ones used the 6v6, and the higher powered early YBA-1 used its big brother on steroids, the 7027A, with both being switched to the more common EL-34/84 later in production.
Mike Levy
Yes, the serial # on his is 0231 or something around there, mine is # 0910. Mine has the Fender style eyelet circuit board, his has the earlier marshall style board with the sort of wraparound post terminals. It also had the hole for the rectifier tube covered with a round steel plate, and the PT had the 5V rectifier windings, He asked me to put in a socket and set it up for the tube rectifier, i did, but its still currently being run with the stock SS setup.
The new photo at the site showing the PT signature is from my friends amp. I also sent a few guys on here a scan pic of most of the inside , ill include that with this post.
>Are you sure your friends is older? It has all the hallmarks of an later Traynor. I still wish that I'd bought the Script badge BassMaster with matching 2x15...
>KO
>>To add a little more confusion to the whole scene, my '66 YBA1 came with 7027 and a 5AR4 rectifier, while my friends earlier '66 YBA1 came with 6CA7's and SS rectifier, as the tube charts called for. So its seems there was a bit of back and forth switching between these tubes early on.
Thanks for putting my picture up. I'll see if I can get one without so much glare next time. Lee
I have a '67 YBA1(no bumpers) with what looks like 2 big transformers and 1 little one; then I have a ?early 70s YBA! (bumpers) with just two trannys. What gives? Is the 'little transformer' an inductor, and what does that do; how is it's function replaced in the later amps? The more I learn about Traynors, the more old Pete seemed a diamond in the rough on electrical engineering design! Any education is appreciated, thanks.
Hi JC: Thanks for the interest in the nameplate. I'm sorting thru some cabinet offers right now...I'll keep you in mind if I end up with the nameplate when it all shakes out.
Jeff
The earliest YBA1 with a tube rectifier used a traditional pi filter as found on early Fenders and many other older guitar amps. It used a centre tapped transformer followed by a full wave rectifier. This is very convenient for early amps as it only requires two diodes (a 5AR4 tube is a double diode). Tube rectifiers can't handle much current, and especially current transients, such as caused by charging a large bank of capacitors. Therefore, it was standard practice to use a small input capacitor (on the YBA1 effectively 40 uF, made up of one 80 uf cap in series with a pair of 40 uf caps), followed by a choke and then more capacitors. The choke, besides acting as an AC filter, adds resistance to the circuit, therefore reducing the capacitor charging current.
The first YBA1 amplifiers built after the tube rectifier was dropped used the same circuit, substituting solid state diodes for the 5AR4 tube. There are effectively two 'diodes' in the main power supply (not counting the bias circuit), however, because of the low voltage ratings of the early diodes used, they are actually composed of strings of 3 identical 'PH204' devices. These models are easy to convert to tube rectifier, if you want a softer power supply.
Later YBA-1 amps had redesigned power supplies to take advantage of very cheap, high current solid state diodes. A bridge rectifier circuit was used which required 4 separate diodes - but diodes are cheap, and because the circuit does not use as high voltages they are not doubled or tripled to increase voltage handling. The transformer no longer needs to be centretapped, and has lower insulation requirements, so it would be cheaper. The output voltage is about the same as the first solid state rectifier models. The doubling of input capacitance to 80 uf (two 40uf caps in parallel) allows the choke to be replaced with a 470 ohm 10 watt resistor.
In any of these circuits, the voltage for the plates of the output tubes (the power is applied to the centretap of the output transformer, the ends of that winding goes to the output tube plates) is taken off before the choke or dropping resistor. The power to the output tubes is not well filtered, however, hum in the output stages of pushpull circuits tends to cancel - therefore, this isn't a problem
. I prefer the models with chokes, however the later models performed about the same, and were cheaper to build. I've only just found the Traynor amp site. I use a YBA 50W valve head for guitar, but through the bass channel as the guitar channel is too noisy and too trebly. The amp gives no indication of minimum speaker impedence: at present I'm using an 8 ohm cab and there seem to be no problems, but I have a 4 ohm cab that I would prefer to use. Is this safe or not? I'd hate to blow the thing as it sounds better than either my Fender or Marshall heads (but not as good as my Burman, but that's another story).
Is the noisy guitar channel just typical of the design or is there some way of calming it down?
DK
Hi David,
... a stock YBA head shouldn't have a noisy bright channel, either it's been modified or there's something wrong with a part in the circuit ... make sure the circuit is stock - some techs have a tendency to change plate or cathode resistances in gain stages to up the overall gain ... I encounter this situation often with Dan Torres Mods in fixing amps, his mods tend towards replacing 100k plate resistors by 220k's ... make sure this hasn't been done in your amp, it can increase the noise floor quite dramatically; same deal with lower than normal cathode resistor valuess throughout the preamp (you may want to unplug your amp, bleed it, pull the tubes out and measure all resistor values in the bright channel with a meter just so you know where things lie) ...
... try this also :
(i) find a 12ax7 that is known to not be microphonic and replace the existing first preamp tube (small tube farthest away from power tubes) or switch the first two 12ax7 tubes (again, first two small tube farthest away from power tubes) play the amp and try to notice if the noise has changed in any way. If the noise dissapears then it's yer tube most likely but if the noise stays the same then there's something in your circuit that needs adressing ...
(ii) if the preamp tubes don't prove positive then circuit caps should be looked at after resistor changes have been elliminated ... the treble cap could be the culprit - on one side only, snip this cap's lead halfway between the part end and the connection end (so you can solder it back easily) and separate the ends of the snipped leads so they don't touch and try your amp again ... repeat same procedure with electrolytic cap ahead in the circuit if the treble bypass cap doesn't prove positive (of course you will have removed the bass bost and slight gain shift ...
... incidently, many YBA players like to convert the overall topology to what it was intended to approximate (ie, a 5F-A Tweed Bassman/Twin signal path) while replace the 125uF bypass cap in the bright channel by a .68uF and often leave the treble cap clipped ... this version is a copy of the model 1986 50w Marshall Preamp design and allows for classic hi/lo mixing through channel bridging while keeping the transient fidelity of the bias-decoupled circuit arrangement ...
a wyrd little noise can sometimes take a long time to hunt down ... look for the obvious first and leave cold solders in the wiring for last ... hope this helps
... btw, you can go 4ohms on YBA's but a 8ohm 4x12 or 4x10 cab is what most people probably use ... check out Lee MacMillan's 2x12 G12M-70 Celestion 16ohm cab pictured at the Traynor page for alternatives to the "usual" ...
jc -----
I''ve been using a 2-12 cab with 8 ohm speakers (200 watt EVs) in parallel for total impedence of 4 ohms, with a custom special (clean for jazz), Mark II (for bass) and YBA1 (guitar). Yes, I am a true Traynor addict. Anyway, getting more familiar with these dinosaurs I see on schematics that the custom specials OT is 4 ohms, but the Mark I and II are 8 ohm...am I damaging anything by using the 4 ohm load? It sounds fine, and I thought that rewiring my cab in series will make it 16 ohm, not as efficient (a factor for the bass), as well as a dead sound if one speaker blows, no current to #2. Thanks!<
... to answer your question, yes you can usually operate an 8ohm class-AB output stage at 4 ohms no problem (take a look at the Blackface Showman schematic) ... you'll experience power loss ...
... to answer your question, yes you can usually operate an 8ohm class-AB output stage at four ohms no problem (take a look at the Blackface Showman schematic) ... the only thing is you'll experience a slight power loss that isn't always so noticeable depending on the speaker arrangement ... in many amps that have extension cabinet jacks but no impedance switch (like most early Fender amps) there's typically no mention to disconnect the existing load; hence plugging a 4x12 Marshall cab in the external jack of a Deluxe without disconnecting the inherent 12 is an undeniable example of great tone and air displacement happening in a mismatched setting ... conversely, running at 16 doesn't produce great tone and, as you pointed out, you can't clip a flailing cone in the middle of a fast tune when wired in series ...