>Hope this helps. To those of us that don't know - this is the first commercially available powerful bass amp. It predates Ampeg's SVT by two years. It puts out 160 watts of clean power. The earliest ones that I know of were 7027 powered. Later ones were EL-34 (four of them) powered and the last of the breed (~1969 - ~1972) had an active EQ section and a master volume. Mine kicks and is my first choice for good tone in a rock setting. It weighs roughly 60 lbs., though, so it sometimes gets left behind in favor of something better for old men like me.
>KO
I just got a Traynor Bass-Master, and I knew of this list, so... here I am. I think I'm the only owner of a Traynor in Germany though, or is there anybody..? I've never seen one around :)
later.
--Daniel
Daniel Cermak-Sassenrath dace@informatik.uni-bremen.de University of Bremen, FRG
Welcome. I love these things. I just found another Bass-Master yesterday. I've got two, plus a Mark II and a Custom Special, but this one comes complete with a 2x15 cabinet. I'm sorely tempted, but the 2x15 doesn't impress me and paying that much when I just want the head bugs me.
The particulars are that it's at the Music-Go-Round in Uptown Minneapolis for $225 US for the pair. I've gotten a Bass-Master for $125 US and the Mark II for $150, US, so I'd be paying ~$100 US for the cab. No doubt that the head has materials worth well over the $225, but the fact is that the market price for a Bass-Master is around $150 US and that if I had any work done on it at all I'd be looking at a loss. Do I really need a third Bass-Master? Not really. Good luck to the happy man who has the sense to pick up this system. Amazingly quiet, not in the good sense. I expected more SPL from it. I can get alot more out of my practice rig, which is a single 15".
I just got back from the West Coast. Dan Torres showed me the Ruby 7027As which are direct substitutes for the Philips ones (so says Dan). They go for about $35 US a pop. Dan was trying to convince me to undo my modification but I have to think about that one (currently using 6550s).<
I was able to use 6L6GC's in my Bassmaster (YBA-1 40 watt) with no mods all though I did install a bias pot.
RUBY/TESLA 7027A At LAST! Current production 7027As for your Ampeg! NOS 7027s have been going for $45-$75 EACH, and the quality has been spotty at best. Matched? FORGET IT!! NOW... Tesla has reissued these tubes, and the folks at Ruby have applied their excellent screening/matching procedure to them to come up with tightly matched pairs and quads. This tube has been optimized for operation at the very high plate voltages found in Ampegs, and it has true 7027 basing. Chuck them 6550s and EL-34s outta your Ampeg and put the real thing back in!! PAIR..................................$44 QUAD..................................$87
As a Traynor note, I got my first Traynor Amp saturday that isn't for Bass. My friend John at Dixie Sound works sold me a YGL-3 Mark III combo for $100!!! The catch was the bottom panel of the cabinet had rotted due to water, which also affected the reverb tank, and speakers were shot. After closer inspection, the cabinet can be fixed fairly easily, John can get me some speakers cheep, and possibly get a new reverb. The upside? After replacing 4 funky preamp tubes, I ran the amp to an extention cabinet.
THIS AMP IS CLEAN and LOUD!!!
So the amp works fine, and its become my latest project. Does anyone on the list own one of these? If so, let me know...Ive got some questions.
Also, Was out at the Traynor schematic archive. If you havent been there lately, check it out. JC has done some new things and has included some new info on Garnet amps. Looks great!!
Mike Levy
I'm moving and I must reluctantly sell my two Bass Masters:
One was made in 1969 (as far as I can tell). It has the earlier smaller cabinet and the enormous output transformer. Mostly original except for a three prong power cord and a couple of small parts replaced. The little chrome caps on some of the knobs are missing, but otherwise it's looks good. Of course it's in great electrical condition. $150 + shipping
The other was made in 1973, I think. It has the larger flip-top cabinet and smaller output transformer (still large for a guitar amp!) This amp has been a test bed for me to experiment with different circuit ideas (the flip-top cab is great for that), so the original circuitry is completely gone. Don't know what's in there now, but I could easily restore the circuit to something like the original if that's important. This one is also in very good condition. $100 + shipping
Thanks!
-- Dave
My Custom Special is now pretty much completely in Distort-o-land. In a very short time she will be going "under the knife". Not that there's anything wrong with the EL-34's, but I'd like to switch. The two contenders in my mind are 6550's and 7027's.
6550's are reputed to be pretty powerful and clean as well as having quite a long lifespan (compared to the measly 26 years that the original Phillips EL-34's gave - well they probably should have been changed long ago). I also figure that since 1) they were still in production for alot longer than most other tube types and 2) every Marshall owner out there is quitting using them in favor of EL-34's that I can probably get some pretty decent tubes for cheap.
On the other hand, the recent discussion of 7027A's betweeen Terry Ladd, Michael Levy, et. al. has me wondering if I should switch to them. The quote taken from "Lord Valve":
So I wouldn't mind some input from the peanut gallery on this one, what are the advantages of 7027A's and should I switch to them or 6550's? I'm going to hire this job done - the Custom Special probably has not seen any real tech work since it left the factory and I'm not up to the job, yet anyway. My amp guy, who has my complete confidence, comes back on the 18th, at which time the amp goes in for work.
Please Help,
KO
Kraig & fellow Traynor-holics,
Here's some more info on tubes I've collected, particularly the 6550s. Again, the info is from "Lord Valve's" Email catalog. There is yet another 6550 made by Sovtek, the 6550WD, which isnt on his price list, but is somewhat less expensive than the 6550WE. Check the Sovtek web site for more info.( www.sovtek.com)
SVETLANA 6550C Used in the Ampeg SVT and the Ampeg V-9, as well as in older Sunns, Marshalls, Leslie cabinets, and a host of other high-powered audio applications, the 6550 is known for its big dynamic range and authoritative low-end. This Svetlana version is VERY rugged and long-lasting, and at less than half the price of NOS they're a good value. E-mail for a stock check before ordering any Svetlana tubes, please. PAIR..................................$50 QUAD..................................$99 SEXTET (may be supplied as 2 triads)..$148
SOVTEK 6550WE This is the highest-powered 6550 I have ever tested. I was able to obtain a 352.8 watt RMS output from an old SVT head with a sextet of these installed...the highest output I've ever recorded. KILLER low end. Presently in short supply, (as of 7/05/98) but I expect to have plenty available in the near future. E-mail me for a stock check before you order these, please. PAIR..................................$57 QUAD..................................$113 SEXTET (may be supplied as 2 triads)..$169
Also included are some instructions kindly provided to me by fellow list member Kevin O'Connor of London Power to convert my Custom Special to 6550s
"...You do not HAVE to do any rewiring to the sockets. However, you insert a 1 ohm to 10 ohm resistor between pins 1+8 and ground. This allows safe measurement of Ik and also acts as a fuse for each tube. You should also add 1k-5W screen resistors for each output tube. This extends tube life immensely and accommodates ANY grade or type of tube (and anyone who doesn,t is asking for trouble).
The only thing you should check is that the bias range extends to -70V or -80V. You can do this by unplugging the output tubes, then sweeping the bias pot for the maximum negative voltage on pin-5. If this voltage does not reach the -70V mark, then you will have to change a resistor in the bias network. The 150k-2W could be changed to 120k-2W or even 100k-2W. I have seen paralleled 150k's here! Or you can change the resistance between the 15k and the bias pot (or between the bias pot and ground, depending on vintage). Increase whatever value is there. Then recheck the bias range as above-- NEVER with power tubes in.
Once you have confirmed that the bias voltage can sweep to this more negative range, then you can plug in some tubes"
On the switch to 7027s, you might have to rewire the amp's output tube sockets to accept the 7027, because of internal pin connections in the 7027(Pins 1 & 8) that are different than than a EL-34 the amp was designed for. I'm fuzzy on this, can anyone elaborate further?
Mike Levy
>-----Original Message----- At 06:57 AM 8/6/98 -0500, you wrote: >My Custom Special is now pretty much completely in Distort-o-land. In a very short time she will be going "under the knife". Not that there's anything wrong with the EL-34's, but I'd like to switch. The two contenders in my mind are 6550's and 7027's.
The ultimate replacement may the KT-88. Svetlana has promised to issue a version within a year. In the meantime, Antique Electronic Supply at http://www.tubesandmore.com has EL34s at $12.75 each. I have not used them, but I have read good things about them - and they are cheap.Michael.Levy@HSV.Boeing.com wrote:
>As a Traynor note, I got my first Traynor Amp saturday that isn't for Bass. My friend John at Dixie Sound works sold me a YGL-3 Mark III combo for $100!!! The catch was the bottom panel of the cabinet had rotted due to water, which also affected the reverb tank, and speakers were shot. After closer inspection, the cabinet can be fixed fairly easily, John can get me some speakers cheep, and possibly get a new reverb. The upside? After replacing 4 funky preamp tubes, I ran the amp to an extention cabinet.
>THIS AMP IS CLEAN and LOUD!!!
>So the amp works fine, and its become my latest project. Does anyone on the list own one of these? If so, let me know...Ive got some questions.
I have two of these, a YGL-3 and a YGL-3A (the 3A is the head only version). The only difference in the chassis is that the YGL-3A has two speaker output jacks on the back panel, the YGL-3 only needs the extension speaker output. I only paid $75 CDN for the YGL-3 as it had been mutilated - some twit decided that it was way too heavy and cut off the speaker portion of the combo. He then discovered, to his horror, that most of the weight in Traynor combos is in the transformers, and that the surgical amputation had accomplished little. I just neatened his carpentry a little and use it as a head - I wish I had it in original combo form.
The original speakers in most Traynors (usually Marslands) are not very good - you didn't loose much there. The reverb spring is not the standard Fender type. Fender reverbs (with some exceptions) are driven by a 12AT7 through a small standard output transformer - the impedence of the input coil is about 8 ohms or so. The YGL-3 drives the reverb spring directly with a EL84/6BQ5 - and therefore needs a high impedance coil on the spring. The reverb tank is made by Accutronics (same brand as Fender) and is available - I think other amp manufacturers (Ampeg?) used a similar scheme. Kevin O'Connor thinks the transformer drive method is superior and in one of his books has a Mark 3 reverb conversion (basically he adds a transformer to the EL84 output and then uses a Fender type spring). He also gives Accutronics part numbers - I will look it up if you are interested.
>Also, Was out at the Traynor schematic archive. If you havent been there lately, check it out. JC has done some new things and has included some new info on Garnet amps. Looks great!!
I'm looking forward to the Traynor catalog pictures JC has promised to post. I consider Garnets to be honorary Traynors - they both feature simple easily repairable construction. Besides, - how many different Canadian tube guitar amp manufacturers have there been? I have a nifty little Garnet REV II combo. Sounds great - about 25 watts from a pair of 6L6s, with single 12, reverb and tremolo. Too bad it looks like a solid state Peavy!
Eric
>In the meantime, Antique Electronic Supply at http://www.tubesandmore.com has EL34s at $12.75 each. I have not used them, but I have read good things about them - and they are cheap.
Oops - I meant to mention that these are made by Svetlana. In the low voltage Traynors it isn't a big deal, but a certain amount of caution in using some bargain tubes in Custom Specials is a good idea.
Eric
>The reverb spring is not the standard >Fender type. Fender reverbs (with some exceptions) are driven by a 12AT7 through a small standard output transformer - the impedence of the input coil is about 8 ohms or so. The YGL-3 drives the reverb spring directly with a EL84/6BQ5 - and therefore needs a high impedance coil on the spring. The reverb tank is made by Accutronics (same brand as Fender) and is available - I think other amp manufacturers (Ampeg?) used a similar scheme. Kevin O'Connor thinks the transformer drive method is superior and in one of his books has a Mark 3 reverb conversion (basically he adds a transformer to the EL84 output and then uses a Fender type spring).
I also found the reverb to be something of a disappointment. At higher gains the EL84 would start clipping and at all but the highest notes the reverb sounded like being in a large dustbin. I have tried to deal with this by raising the maximum unclipping input voltage of the EL84 and by filtering off more of the bass(the spring-tank is mids and highs only). I am pleased by the result but unfortunately my band split up and I have not tried it out with others. I bet a transformer sounds better but there is work associated with such a mod. We we all try to avoid that, right? ;-)
/Olof Westman
I have begun collecting traynor equipment, i have just recently purchased a late sixties bassmasters for $200. it is in mint condition today i purchased a mark 2 amp about 1972 one of the newer style ones for $140 it two is in great condition. i would like to find out the differance between the bassmaster and the bassmaster mark 2.
>i would like to find out the >differance between the bassmaster and the bassmaster mark 2.
Traynor Bassmaster YBA1 8 ohms 2 X 6CA7/EL34 436 plate V Traynor Bassmaster Mark 2 YBA1A 8 ohms 2 X 6CA7/EL34 537 plate V
Traynor claimed that a YBA1A (Bassmaster Mark 2) had approx. twice the power output of an ordinary Bassmaster (YBA1) despite the identical tube complement and external appearance. The standard Bassmaster is about 45 to 50 watts, the Mark 2 70 to 80 watts, - it depends on line voltages and output tubes. The two models were produced simultaneously - the Mark 2 was not a replacement for the YBA1. The plate voltage for the YBA1A is 537 volts - a hundred more than the YBA1. These amps are often operated with 4 ohm loads. The YBA3 Custom Special is effectively a doubled YBA1A - the plate voltage is the same but with 4 6CA7s.
A quick way to tell a YBA1A from a YBA1 in a dark music store - YBA1As have a noisy fan to dissuade the output tubes from attempting suicide. Early Mark 2s have the fan mounted on the end. Later Mark 2s (with lift off top) have the fan mounted in the back.
Logically the YBA-1 should be prefered for guitar because of its Marshall and Fender type plate voltages, and the YBA-1A for bass with more power and Ampeg type voltages. In practice, it is just a matter of taste.
Eric
PS - I have two lift off top Mark 2s, and a early Traynor Signature (very much like a standard Bassmaster with preamp differences) in the older case style. Great amps!What date did the removable top lid yba-1a appear (jut trying to judge the date of my yba-1a - which has the reflecotr 'traynor' logo, and serial no. 2070585)
thanks
Aaron
Hi everybody,
I put together a small web page about Traynor amps, please drop by, and let me know what you think.
It's at: http://www.informatik.uni-bremen.de/~dace/vb
I'll be out of town for a while, but I'm looking forward to hear from you when I return.
thanks.
--Daniel
Dear Aaron - I have several wonderful Traynor amps: 2-variants of the YBA-3 Custom Special (1"master" w. both halves of 1st 12AX7 used for gain, the other amp only uses 1/2 of the AX7 but someone drilled the front panel for a "master" without consideration of the gain structure). Also I have a YBA-1 which I may like best. Ê
The YBA-1 has clarity, yet a "liquid" midrange. some of this must be from the cathode-follower drive of the "Fender" type passive eq. The output transforme must weigh only about 3lb., yet sounds very good. The DCR of the primary is fairly low so I'm gonna assume there isn't much primary inductance. The interstage coupling caps are sized to avoid much infrasonic stuff.
Did Pete purposely specify this transformer this way with knowledge of the good subjective performance outcome? I'm gonna guess that more primary inductance could have been achieved in this size output transformer, but the DCR would have been a lot higher, and maybe the bass "softer".
I've got a custom wound 1K p-p Pacific Transformer, made of M6, which only weighs about 14 lb with a rating of 330 watts down to 40Hz and will build a bass guitar amp using either 8-EL34 or 6-EL509 output tubes with a nominal B+ of about 570vdc at idle. Hopefully, by using only one 12AX7 diff-amp (plus cathode-follower buffers) I can get a GIANT YBA-1 sound (?).
Do you build valve amps for hi-fi and guitar? My only power amp projects so far have been a 4x 6550 bass amp for a friend, and a parallel SE2A3 amp for my horn stereo. I wish I could hear Lowthers, but have balance problems and can't drive. (Old age at 48!)
Does Pete Traynor discuss his audio designs, or has he moved on to other interests? I've really think his amps were and are the best for bass guitar.
Sincerely Fred Ireson
>What date did the removable top lid yba-1a appear (jut trying to judge the date of my yba-1a - which has the reflecotr 'traynor' logo, and serial no. 2070585)
> thanks, Aaron
I am not sure, but I may have a transitional model. It has a case that looks identical to the later removable top models (with rubber wrapped end plates), but the top isn't removable. The only obvious clue is that there are no bolts through the endplates to fasten the amp chassis to the box. As the top plate is not removable, the amp is dirrectly bolted to it - the side bolts are not needed. I was very suprised when I was unable to pry the top off! I'm sure that as soon as they had been making this design a few weeks someone had the bright idea that if the chassis was bolted to the sides instead of the top then the top plate could be removable - making servicing vastly simpler.
The amp is a Bass Master Mark II YBA-1A. The non-removable top amps did not have circuit diagrams, but it did have a couple slips of paper stuck to the bottom. One was a tube chart, the other had model information and a hand written date - June 1, 71. The last date number was not very clear, however it was confirmed by the date number on the Mallory capacitor 235-7051Y. 235 is Mallory's EIA code, 70 is the year and 51 is the week. Late December 1970 fits well with a June 1 71 amplifier production date. The amp serial number is 1051187.
Three of my Traynors are out on loan, but the other two I have on hand have removable tops:
Mark 3 YGL-3A head SN 3093614 The latest revision date on the circuit diagram is December 72. There are no conveniently coded Mallory caps, but the Mel Rain Corp circuit breaker has the code 834-7328 - the 28th week of 73 - it is probable the amp was constructed a few months after that - perhaps late 73.
Custom Special YBA-3 SN 3021724 The Mel Rain Corp circuit breaker has the code 834-7305 - the 5th week of 73 - it is probable the amp was constructed a few months after that - perhaps mid 73.
This is an interesting pattern: SN 1051187 June 71 SN 3021724 Mid 73 SN 3093614 Late 73
It may be coincidence, but the first digit of the serial number matches the year of production. Is your Bassmaster Mark II SN 2070585 a 1972?
Could other Traynor owners check this out please! Compare your serial number with the production date.My Bassmaster YBA-1 has the production date rubber stamped on the easily visible paper affixed to the cabinet bottom. The production date is February 24, 1971. This paper list is to the left of the tube chart as you look into the head from the rear. It lists such things as who checked: Fitting, Top Plate, Chassis, Speaker, Back, Complete, Model & Date. My chassis is bolted through the top of the cabinet and has the rubber and "chrome" surrounds on each end.
Now, with that having been said, here's the interesting part. My serial number 1020629 and considering the rubber stamped production date of 2/24/71, could the serial number be read like this: First Number: Last digit of year of production Second and Third Numbers: Month of production (01 = Jan/11=Nov./etc.) Last four Numbers: Numbered unit produced within that year ?
Oh, well -- I can dream -- right?
I, also, noticed this but never had enough time or Traynor amps to look for a continued pattern. Sundown, VHT, and many amplifier makers did this encoding within serial numbers in the '80s & '90s.
Can more Traynor owners please post their serial numbers and production dates to give our little experiment? -- Jay
My Bassmaster YBA-1 has the production date rubber stamped on the easily visible paper affixed to the cabinet bottom. The production date is February 24, 1971. This paper list is to the left of the tube chart as you look into the head from the rear. It lists such things as who checked: Fitting, Top Plate, Chassis, Speaker, Back, Complete, Model & Date. My chassis is bolted through the top of the cabinet and has the rubber and "chrome" surrounds on each end.
Now, with that having been said, here's the interesting part. My serial number 1020629 and considering the rubber stamped production date of 2/24/71, could the serial number be read like this: First Number: Last digit of year of production Second and Third Numbers: Month of production (01 = Jan/11=Nov./etc.) Last four Numbers: Numbered unit produced within that year ?
I heard of a studio mate that was modded to run either El-84's or 6V6's..
Does anyone know the details of this modd...Also how to add a bias pot and what values of resistors they ended up with..... Thanks BillAdding a bias pot to a Studio/GuitarMate is no big deal. The schematic for the amp is under the chassis cover.
To keep the tremolo intact, just lift the end of the 15k?/22k? (can't remember the value) that ties the bias supply to ground. Insert a 22k-50k trimmer and you are done. This allows a reduction of bias. To get things running hotter-- if you need this option-- replace the fixed resistor with the next lowest standard value.
There is lots of space between the EL84 sockets and the end of the chassis. I have added octals here on several of these amps. It is no big deal and not "drastic". The mod is invisible unless you bend waaaaaay down and look underneath.
When you do this mod, though, you should add grid stops AT the sockets, and screen resistors. These will greatly improve tube life.... I expect waay more than 20 years of service from the tubes in amps I build...
Have fun Kevin O'Connor
>I have a question on Studio Mate....
>I heard of a studio mate that was modded to run either El-84's or 6V6's..
This would have to be a fairly drastic mod - both 6V6's and EL84/6BQ5's are classic guitar tubes and are fairly similar in characteristics, but they use different sockets. EL84's use 9 pin miniature sockets (same as 12AX7's) wheras 6V6 tubes use octal (large 8 pin sockets) the same as used by 6L6's and EL34's. You would have to add a pair of octal sockets if there is room to install them (as far as I know all studio mates use EL84's) or use socket adapters - but I haven't seen suitable ones.
For bias circuits and base wiring detals you should check out Kevin O'Connor's books at Power Press
It is a very interesting project - I look forward to a report on your progress.I am not sure I will do the mod but heard of someone selling one with both sockets in it..... I am getting a dual 6V6 Alamo head and have a Gibson GA-19RVT that I just got done operating on....(almost done) changed 3 preamp tubes from 6EU7's over to 12Ax7's revoiced preamp tubes and changed power supply voltages to more deluxe style voltages. The reverb with a distortion pedal wails in a pleasant and bizarre way. Both of these have dual 6V6's so it would be silly to change it unless it were to make it so it could go with either. Anybody got more specifics on the bias pot mod ???? Bill
Jay Rodgers recently proposed that the Traynor serial numbers might indicate the production period. I checked my YBA-1 Bassmaster and the results support his theory that the 1st number is the last digit of the year of production and the 2nd and 3rd numbers are the month of production. I purchased my YBA-1 new in October 1974. The serial # is 4035016. So a production date of March, 1974 makes sense. I'm curious if anybody else has checked this out.
Jeff Smith
Dear Sir, First I would like to personally congradulate, and applaude your wonderful page of simply some of the best amplifiers made EVER. No unfortunately I am not a citizen of Canada, but am trying to get my health up to investigate the country further. I am unfortunately having a great deal of trouble with certain schematics on your page. The images are corrupt in that they do not show the entire schematic. Thusly, I cannot save them to disk or enjoy them fully online. Very disappointing after finding something as worthwhile as this. Is there anything I can do, or that can be done to rectify this situation? Any help would be a great help (pun intended). Thank you for your valuable time. Sincerely, Mark, ... Ludlow, Massachusetts USA-No I did not vote for Clinton, perhaps if it were George I may have. Be well.
I've been looking at your plans four your web page - great stuff. I have a Garnet Rev II combo amp I would love to know more about and see a circuit diagram - not many guitar amps use 12AU7's. It has a single 12", tremolo and reverb, and puts out (judging by transformer sizes) about 25 watts from a pair of 6L6's. I am looking forward to the Traynor catalog page images - I have never seen any official Traynor specifications except weight and external dimensions! There are a lot of models that never show up on the stores I frequent - a dozen Bass Masters for every more exotic Traynors.
As suggestion. You might want to put links on the Traynor Schematic Archive page to the rest of your site. I suspect many users hit the schematic archive directly from an external link and miss the rest of your stuff. Recently, when I have mentioned your site, I have used just
Eric
Proud owner of YSR-1 Custom Reverb. I haven't yet been able to figure out the mfr. date, probably @'68-72. It's got the silvery grill cloth, but nothing on the schematic, other than all updates are in pen. I run in through a homemade cab with 2 old Celestion 10" speakers. Bought in '77 for $100.00us and had the missing reverb pan added in '83. It has two RCA 6CA7/EL34s in it along with 6 12AX7s. I've only played out with it a few times. Mostly just noodle around with it in the den (when the neighbors go on vacation!) The sound is excellent even though it has never been overhauled or biased. If anyone has an Owner's Maunual for the YSR-1 I'd love to get a copy. Dan Lear at Yorkville sent me a couple pages from their old catalogs. If anyone's interested I'll mail you copies. I'm also looking for a nameplate.
Later,
I just bought my first Traynor, a '67 Bassmaster with EL34 (6CA7) tubes. I was wondering what are standard mods for this amp. I would love to get this amp sounding close to a JTM45.
Thanks, G.Crask