I suspect that Yorkville floated the idea of a reissue with some of their dealers to check out the interest - thus the rumour Kraig heard. I suspect the problem is that the parts costs would be greater than, say, a Marshall because of the superior transformers, and a small production run would mean no significant volume price breaks, plus Canadian labour costs are higher than English rates, especially if they retained the traditional point to point wiring. I am not sure the public is ready for a Traynor that costs almost as much as the boutique amps, and more than an otherwise equivalent Marshall or Fender.
Has anyone tried the Svetlana 6L6GC's in a Custom Special as a substitute for the almost unobtainable 7027's? I read recently of someone running a high voltage Ampeg with Svetlana 6L6GC's instead of 7027's despite the fact that this is wildly in excess of the tube ratings. This has the advantage that you don't need to do the circuit changes required for 6CA7/EL34's. Fortunately the only Traynor I have with 7027's is a humble Signature, which runs on low (about 420) voltage - and therefore the substitution is not scary.
So, how many of us wrote into TBL to correct the assertion that Traynor was following Ampeg with the 8x10? I had no idea that Traynor also introduced the (first?) 4x10 cab way back then.
Thanks for posting the owner's manual, Eric. I actually learned a couple of things from it: 1) That the upper inputs for each channel were padded and that the lower input was higher gain 2) I had never thought to screw around with the other input volume than the channel I was using.
KO
At the moment the EL-34's in my Custom Special (the original Phillips tubes) are fine, but I was thinking of getting an extra set of tubes, since all of my Traynors are EL-34 based. I e-mailed Angela instruments (www.angela.com) and was told that they have nothing was appropriate to the higher plate voltages that both the Custom Special and the Mark II send out. The guy at Angela is a tube junky so I somewhat defer to him.
Does anyone have a recommendation for the next course of action? He recommended KT-88's (chinese)
BTW, for future reference, what are we talking about for plate voltages on the Custom Special and Mark II? 700 volts?
Sir,
The 'Siemans' EL34 would not be a good choice for your amp, unless you modified the plate circuit and lowered the plate voltage somehow. You might want to consult with a good repair critter in your area for help with this project. I don't currently have any EL34 I would recommend for your amp. If you were willing to modify the bias circuit slightly you could run our relatively cheap Tesla KT88 or even E.I. KT90. Since these tubes have an 'in the ballpark' similarity to EL34, as far as primary impedance of the output transformer, etc. that would be my choice for a a cost effective solution.
Steve Melkisethian/Angela Instruments
On the subject of reissue: Traynors orignal objective was to build rugged amps that beat the price of the imports. That's probably an impossible goal today. And although we tend to think of certain old products as having some special quality, my feeling is their creators just thought of them as filling a certain need. The need that drives re-issues is the desire by some to have amps built the expensive way.
I'm always watching out for the contemporary who builds amps the Traynor way. Anyone checked out the New Sensor/ Sovtek Mig60? For us$300.oo, its a really fine guitar amp. The Sovteks have DC powered filaments, with a dramatic reduction in hum. Nice Presence control too.
-Tony
I just got my amp back from Dixie sound Works down here in Alabama, (Nothing wrong...phew!). While there, I had a discussion with John, the owner/Tech on the topic of tubes. Here, in a nutshell, was his recommendations:
Svetlana EL-34 Sovtek EL-34WXT Tesla EL-34L
Now of course these are all new production European mfgr. tubes. Granted, NOS tubes would be the way to go, but the cost of a quartet of NOS Phillips(or heaven forbid, Mullards or Seimens), would stard at $100 and go up, up, up! (a quick search of a couple tube dealers on the web while typing this indicated Phillips UK NOS tubes were $60- 100.....EACH!!!).
The Svets and the Sovteks can be found for $50/quartet, matched and shipped to your door. Teslas are more expensive, maybe $70/quartet.
I currently run Svets in my YBA-1A and the Teslas(by way of Groove Tubes) in my YBA-1. My -3A has a set of Sovtek EL-34Gs in it the tech said they are running about 72% power. I think I might try the Sovtek WXTs as a reference point. I 've read that all three tubes, esp. the Svetlanas, were designed to replicate the Mullard/Seimens tube.
By the way, for all you Traynor-holics with 7027As, there was a recent blurb in TBL about a new production 7027A from Tesla. I pursued this, as I also have an old V4-B, and found out that they appear to be a respectable tube, can handle the voltage, and are about $100/matched Quad. Also, I've been told that the Sovtek 5881WXT can be used as a (possible!!) drop in substitute for the the 7027A. Check with Triode Electronics online, they have a good FAQ called "Help!! my Ampeg has 7027As! " These 5881WXTs are in the same price range as the EL-34s above. Try Antique Electronics online for a very thorough listing of reasonably priced tubes.
Questions? Corrections? Better Info? Please let me know!!! (I'm no tech, it's only info I've gathered online, but I've found it to be useful!)
Thanks,
Mike Levy ...Why, Soitainly!!
I appreciate the lead as regards Triode Electronics. I have already converted my Custom Special from 7027As to 6550s. Sounds great to me!
I head to Chicago tomorrow for a few days and will look these people up. Thanks again.
Terry (mtl)
Hi, Thought I'd put a little bio info up about me; I live in Ft Lauderdale Fl and service, buy and sell TUBE vintage guitar amps. I also build a line of dead on knockoffs of the Fender late model Tweeds, and am starting to build original circuit amps in pure class A with enough power for stage level volume. My URL is www.soflotubeamps.com , feel free to hit even though it's not done yet. I have owned and serviced a number of Traynors and they are one of my favorite production amps ever, from a player and a service tech point of view. So whats going on ? I send in a couple schems. and now it looks like I'm on a E-mail network, true? Who are you guys and where are you? Regards, Paul
Paul Markwalter
>>Has anyone tried the Svetlana 6L6GC's in a Custom Special as a substitute for the almost unobtainable 7027's? I read recently of someone running a high voltage Ampeg with Svetlana 6L6GC's instead of 7027's despite the fact that this is wildly in excess of the tube ratings.
>that's very possible especially since the russian tubes are not exact replicas of the original tubes ... the early russian 5881's (then falsely branded 6L6GC's) had a tube rating around 700 volts ... so it makes great sense that the russian 6L6GC's would have similar overating capabilities ...
Does anyone have any idea where I can pick up a Traynor reflector logo plate for the front of my Custom Special? It didn't have one when I got it and I could take the one off of my Bassmaster, but I'd prefer to get a new one.
For those who don't know what I mean: The plate is made of plastic with black and the centers of the letters are similar to the reflectors on a bicycle (whitish).
Thanks in advance for any replies. ...
P.S. are there any definitive dates for the years that Traynor amps were made? When various crossovers were made to different stylings (i.e. the slide out chasis vs. the flip top, the shiny grill cloth vs. the "mirror" mylar, when the Custom Special got a master volume, when Traynor/Yorkville came out with the 4x10 and 8x10, etc.). This information would be of interest to at least me...
KO
Excellent webpage ! My first amp was (is) a YBA1. The Schematic is dated 1967, but the circuit is like the '72 model you have posted. The thing never really worked very well, but I had some mods done a couple of years ago, and then I replaced the filter caps this year. Since the repairs have been done, it sounds fantastic and I would not trade it for the world. I just wish I could get another one, just in case. They are pretty rare in Texas (I got mine in Detroit when I was much younger). Thanks for the work on the page, and I hope you come up with some more stuff.
Mark Knapp Raytheon TI Systems
>Eric Knudsen got everybody together after he noticed Traynor schematics on my website
Actually, Kraig Olmstead is the guy who organized things. Kraig and I had been trading information for some time.
Have you asked Yorkville? I tried them when I thought I needed a new Accutronics reverb spring unit for a Mark 3 (Traynor uses a high impedance spring unit driven directly by an EL84, rather than the more common low impedance spring unit driven though an impedance matching transformer like Fender and many others). Yorkville had one in stock - I didn't actually buy it because the problem turned out to be only a corroded connector. I don;t know if they have much old Traynor stuff in stock. I need a couple of nameplates myself.
The Custom Special and Mark 2 have about 540 volts on the plates. This is higher than you are supposed to use on 6L6s, but well within the ratings of 7027As and EL34s. I like to keep the same tube type where possible - so I just use EL34s in my later Mark 2s. All the early (as far as I know) Traynors used 7027s whether they were high voltage or not. 6L6s are good substitutes in the low voltage amps like the early ordinary Bassmaster and Signature - they run on less than 450 volts. No circuit mods are required. I read somewhere that the Chinese KT 88s were actually 6550s - they made both and the only real difference was the labelling. I don't know if this is true or not. I bought a pair of Eico HF-20s from Angela Instruments - nice amps. .
>P.S. are there any definitive dates for the years that Traynor amps wereÊÊ made?Ê When various crossovers were made to different stylings (i.e. theÊÊ slide out chasis vs. the flip top, the shiny grill cloth vs. the "mirror"ÊÊ mylar, when the Custom Special got a master volume, whenÊÊ Traynor/Yorkville came out with the 4x10 and 8x10, etc.).Ê ThisÊÊ information would be of interest to at least me...Ê
It would be tempting to see if we can persuade Yorkville to cough up some interesting archival material to be posted on a website. I would love to know some production dates and numbers. I think it would be in Yorkville's interest to remind people that they have been around since the early 60's. There is only a handful of amplifier manufacturers who have been around for 35 yeats.
Dear JC:
I am the proud owner of a Super Custom and was wondering if you might know what the original matching cabinet might have been for this beast of a head? Any assistance would be appreciated! Thank you in advance and Happy Holidays!
Steve
(... all that kind of info is in the catalogue ...)I found a nicely drawn schematic of a Traynor Model YGM-4 Studio Mate at:
<
An interesting change from the photocopied Yorkville schematics.
his review was just posted on Harmony Central:
>Traynor YBA-2 Bassmate >Submitted at: 0:44, 12/16/97 >Price Paid: free used >Features: 9
>Volume and tone controls only. It has two inputs, seems to be high and low, no major difference. My repairman told me it was between 12.3 and 15 Watts. All tube pre-amp and power-amp,would not expect anything else from Traynor.
My amp is a combo, with a 15 inch speaker ( the speaker even has a small tear in it but I don't want to replace it , cause it seems to sound so good) Hard to give this amp a rating but personaly I love the fact that there is no choice in the matter. >Sound Quality: 8
This amp sounds great, With the volume control from 1 to 3, there is little difference in tone, but gives a nice clean sound from my stock 89 American strat.Turn it up past 3 and the power tubes start to overload as you increase the vol. With my guitar vol. on 10 and the amp all the way up you get the most beautiful natural distortion for lead. By backing off on the vol. pot it cleans it up just enough for chords. The Tone control seems to add more top end from 1 to 4, but from there on there is no major difference, but with both on full lookout, cause Clapton may knock on your door and wonder if Stevie Ray did pass away, or is just hiding out in your closet. Reliability: 8
>The amp was built in the early seventies, and its still kicking, especially when you consider that the amp is almost always driven on max. I had a few problems in the begining ( tubes, hum), but everything is o:k now. Hand wiring, and you can imagine how basic the circuit is. Very easy to fix. Customer Support: N/A Traynor has long since folded, and is now Yorkville sound. But I doughtthey would care to help any. Overall Rating: 9
>I've looked in every pawnshop I've come across and haven't found one yet that only has a vol. and tone control. If I could find one I would buy it. This is the best practise amp you could ever want. Classic distortion at HOME(bedroom) volume. I feel sorry for the beginner guitarists who have to settle for some cheesy little practice amp that has no relevance for existance, besides turning every new guitarist into a solid state distortion junkie, never realizing , and thats if they ever do, that distortion is not harsh but rather warm, cozy and natural. Maybe if some of the salesmen out ther would give some advice, and pass on some musical knowledge, instead of smiling for every sale of recyclable junk.
Submitted by: brent romanuk
I'm not sure, but I there are at least two, possibly more. The original used 7027 power tubes. Michael Levy has an earlier model than mine, but I'm not sure what tubes he's got. His has no master volume and he says it's largely set up like a Bassmaster. His fan is mounted in the side of the cabinet and is one of the slide out (Bassman-style) cabinets. Mine has a master volume and a flip-top cab. The fan is mounted like my Mark II's fan, just blowing across the power tubes. I'll e-mail Michael and see if he has the schem. I've never looked, by I assume that my schem is under the lid like most flip-top Traynors are.
Brian Kruschel also has a Custom Special. He's going to take some pictures of his. I'll probably do the same and I'll see if Michael will, too.
KO
Kraig asked for more info on my new Traynor.
It's a bass mate model YBA-2B serial number 7023685
The front panel has high and normal inputs, volume, treble and bass controls with a 1 amp fuse and an on'off switch.
The rear panel has an 8ohm speaker socket and tells the world that it has 4 tubes - 2* 6BQ5 and 2* 12AX7.
It has a 15" speaker but it is not obviously easy to get into to see who made it, and I haven't done this yet.
There doesn't seem to be a schematic for this on the Traynor web site. Does anyone know anything more about this - such as its year of production though I guess 1970 from the serial number.
I'm still pleased with it, and it has now been used at a gig, though as a guitar amp at which it has to be said it excels.
Nigel
Thanks to TBL and Alex Clater I'm now the proud owner of a Traynor Bassmate combo.
Everything said here on TBL is true. It's a great amp, looks wonderfully retro and appeals to my sense of the deeply obscure.
Nigel Stanley London UK
Tell me about the Bassmate. What size is the speaker, what are the controls, what are the tubes?
The standard Bassmaster has three 12AX7 tubes and two EL-34's (AKA 6AC7's). The controls are channel one volume, channel two volume, bass, bass expander, treble and treble expander. Is this the layout of the Bassmate? What is the model number on the back of the amp? YBA-4?
KO
FYI, all...
I've got the following schematics that are not at the Traynor web site. These are all paper copies, I've got no way to get them to the site except to fax/snail mail. If anyone can help me out I'll fax them to you and you can scan/electronically transmit to JC.
YBA-1A YBA-2 YBA-3A(How can they get 250W from 4 power tubes!?!?) YBA-4 YBA-5(called the "Arm Stretcher" by a guy I talked to at Yorkville...its a YBA-4 Combo with a Cerwin Vega 15" and the -1A 80W amp)
Mike
I think he may be incorrect on some of his stuff about the stylings. I have a Mark II that has "Chrome" mylar (plastic) where the silver cloth would be on most Traynors (and it never had a logo plate that I can tell - I think Yorkville was phasing out the Traynor name at that point). The picture of Peter Traynor on the home page has several amps that have the same stuff. I think this is near the end of Traynor production.
Hi
We didn't keep a lot of information such as you are asking for. THe grille cloth we used was a silvery grey which was used up until the mid 70's We then used all black which we used until the early 80's after that we used black metal grills. The Custom Special had the Master Volume added in 1969 and the 410 and 810 were designed in the Mid 60's. As far as the logo plate you are asking about unfortunately we do not have any more parts for the Traynor amps
........................... Dan Lear orders@yorkville.com Yorkville Sound Toronto, Ontario
I'm in the market for one or more Bassmasters or Mark II's. If I'm paying shipping, the price should be between US $100 - $130 and they should be in reasonable working condition - I'm assuming shipping would cost US $30. They make a great stocking stuffer...
I still haven't found someone to service my YBA-1A yet (due to not talking to the local music shop and not having transport to take the thing out of York easily), so these questions are a little academic at the moment.
Has anyone tried splitting the signal from the bass into both input channels, and using a pedal to boost one path to overdrive the valve? A lot of overdrive pedals allow you to balance the overdrive and clean signal and I wondered if this would work driving two inputs at the same time.
Can you use the inputs to create a loop for effects? I understand that you can plug into one channel, and then use the other input from that channel as an output. Would it work if that output was then put into an FX pedal/rack, and then back in via the input of the other channel? I think Eric Knudsen mentioned something about chaining channels and resistors....
Happy New Year
Aaron Turner
When searching for schematics, discussions with techs at yorkville indicated that the YBA-3 performed best with a 4 ohm load. Also, a shop I frequent has a Traynor 2x15" bass cabinet, with a design very reminiscent of the tube heads-same piping on the end plates, grill cloth, etc. The data plate on the back indicate a 4 ohm rating. FWIW...
Hello stranger,
I really like your web site and was wondering if you wanted more Traynor schematics. Yorkville sound sent me all the drawings for the YGM guitar mate series. Mine isn't any of them! It would seem that the old Tranynor amps often strayed from the published docs. I'm converting mine from a close backed single 12 combo to an open backed single 15 combo. A poor man's blackface Vibroverb. I can scan the schematics and email them. If interested of course.
Regards,
John Templeton Hamilton Ontario
>I have just aquired a 1969 YBA1 amp and have been told that it can be turned into an amp similar in sound to a scream'in Marshall Plexi. Do you know where I could find a piont to point blue print of a Plexi or can you piont me to some one who might have already attempted this mod.
>Thanks DanO
the circuit in question is the '59 bassman circuit ... marshall copied that circuit in the plexi days ... the volume pots need to be changed to 1Meg and a few resistor and cap values in the tone stack and elsewhere need to be changed ... i think these are the changes you are talking about ... if you can locate a 5F8-A or 5F6-A Fender schematic compare your circuit and make appropriate changes ... send me a line if you need help
jc
I'm just trying to decide how to fit an IEC inlet to my YBA-1A. Is the amp vintge enough (1969) to worry about cutting a hole in the wood of the lower rear panel, or should I cut a new panel with the hole cut in, and retain the original?
Basically, I need to find out if the bassmaster YBA-1 (???) is the Traynor that is similar to a JTM 45and Tweed Bassman circuit, as I have a chance to get one. [For $150 I think -Aaron]
Thanks, Jim
(... yes, if it's early enough they're topologically identical and differ in only a few parameters just to say it's not a dead knockoff ...)
Hey! Good to find you all out there! I've been a Traynor player for several years now ('68 BassMaster and '72 BassMate, guitar played through both) and couldn't agree more that they're incredible amps! I'm also an amp tech & can attest to the high quality of the parts and construction. The tone and signal caps are the exact kind used by Marshall in the late '60-'70's, and the trannies are (mostly) superb iron. The EXTREMELY simple BassMate (YBA-2A head, YBA-2B closed-back combo with 15" speaker) gets a very Vox-ey grind when pushed, and the old version BassMate is as close to a small-box 50w Marshall as I've ever heard. For the money, I'll take 'em any day.
I own a Traynor MkIII with a "Texas Boogie" modified circuit by Dan Torres in San Rafael, CA. I've had the amp for about six years now and love it.
I just discovered your Traynor web page and think its pretty cool.
Thanks,
If you look at Pete's picture, under his right arm, second amp head down. That is my amp head. A Traynor Mono-Block b. If you come across the schematic for this power house, will you please let me know. I bought mine new in '73. It was the display model at an amp show in NYC. Also aquired two YCV 2-15 cabinets as well. This amp still works flawlessly even after all these years. I would like to have the schematic as a "just in case" mode.
Thanks,
John Agapetus
Bassist Designer/Developer of the "SSS" and "SSS2" bass guitars Principal Electronics Design Engineer
Hello,
I just wanted to drop you a line, and thank you for your Traynor page.
I own a YGL-3A head, and a YGM-3.
A local music store has a "consignment shop", and has had a number of Traynor amps in the past. All I own came from there. They have had speaker cabinets, and solid state amps on occasion. I was able to pick up my amps quite inexpensively, because the people in the shop don't know what they are.
Currently they have an amp called a YBA-4 "Bass Master", which looks very much like my "Guitar Master". Do you know anything about this amp?
Also, is there any technical history of the Traynor amps, as far as specifications etc.? I know my YGL3 is "about 100 watts", and the YGM-3 is "about 20 watts" past that I'm in the dark.
Thanks again, and if I purchase the YBA-4, I'll send you a copy of the schematic, if it has one. Tim McCoy
This one's a keeper! I got a chance to really test this amp and boy does it smoke. And that's with the spare pair of small bottle 6L6WGBs that I put in. I bypassed the bass channel vol pot with a 100 pf cap and it gives a nice smoother sound to the brighter channel II. The bright channel II has a ballsy, snotty overdrive with the volume set at 4. The less bright channel I has a fat funky smooth slightly overdirven tone when set at the same volume. Its inspiring my to replace the CTS speakers in my 4x12 cabinet with some Webers.
Dave Rutherford
I'm not sure if your are the corect person to ask on this subject, but as a lover of the Traynor instrument amps, I'd like to know if Pete Traynor will talk about his designs. Pete seemed to always use a 12AX7 "long-tail" driver/inverter ala' Fender. This, plus low amounts of loop NFB probably contributed to the beautiful "liquid" midrange quality of the Traynor tube amps. I'd love to talk to Pete on this subject if he is willing and has the time.
Currently, I'm building a dual-mono push-pull parallel EL34 amp for m stereo using Hammond 1650T 1.9K p-p transformers. For the driver/inverter I've considered using a pentode 6BX6 diff-amp with transistor CCS. Then again, I may use a 12AX7 driver in hope to get that old "magic" midrange my Traynor amps.
Take Care